Good Reason

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Category: atheism (page 10 of 17)

An old argument, updated

A Facebook friend wrote:

Every kind of beautiful art causes me to marvel at the artist. Even more, at the Artist who made the artist.

So I responded:

Was there an Artist who made the Artist who made the artist who made the art?

The collective opinion of his other religious friends is a resounding ‘no’.

That being the case, my next comment would be:

So if an Artist does not need a creator, why does an artist?

It’s just the old ‘Who created the Creator?’ problem. If a god doesn’t need a creator and things can just appear uncreated, then anything could just appear without needing a god to create it. But if a god does need a creator, it doesn’t fix the problem; it just extends it back a generation. That way lies Infinite Regress, and it’s turtles all the way down.

But then I suppose this friend would then say, “God doesn’t need a creator. He’s God. Duh.” Can’t argue with a definition like that.

UPDATE: I was right. Someone did end up saying exactly that.

Global Atheist Con, Day 2: Sue-Ann Post

Sue-Ann Post is well-known to Australian audiences. One look at her will tell you she’s not just your average 6-foot-tall ex-Mormon lesbian comedian. She got the crowd going last night with her tales of the strangeness of Mormon belief, and the shows she’s done since her deconversion. “If you want to know why I’m a lesbian, just look at Mormon men!” she roared, to the delight of the audience and the discomfort of at least one erstwhile Latter-day Saint.

But all was forgiven today at the book signing. She gave me a congratulatory (regular) handshake when I told her of my deconversion, and she was very funny and gracious. She didn’t even mind when I mentioned that, while she mentioned the Mormon belief that God lives on planet Kolob, in fact Kolob is the star around which God’s planet orbits. She thought that was great, and it reminded me that Joseph Smith really came up with some whoppers.

Me and Sue-Ann Post

Global Atheist Con, Day 2: Goings-on

In the time between sessions, people grab food, buy books (everyone’s promoting a book here), and talk to each other. Check out the photo — that’s a lot of atheists, that’s for sure.

I used to think that atheists were usually ex-believers (because who else would care?), but here I’ve met quite a few folks who have never been religious and still identify closely with the aims (loosely defined though they are) of the atheist movement.

There’s quite a connection between political liberalism and atheism. There are but few conservatives here. There was a funny moment where Philip Adams asked for a show of hands: Who’s politically left-of-center? Thousands of hands. Everyone I could see. Conservatives? I couldn’t see everything from my vantage point, but I could see maybe one or two hands out of thousands. I think there are also more vegetarians. I wish there were a survey going around. It would say some interesting things about the more committed atheists, anyway.

I also met Sarah from the Australian Sex Party. Slogan: “Where you come first!” Yes, that’s right. In Australia, there are many political parties, and your vote is not wasted if you vote for a smaller party, because votes from non-winning parties flow on to your next preference. If America used Instant Run-off Voting, they could have a sex party too!

At first, I thought “Australia Sex Party. Right. Catchy.” I actually wondered what they were doing there, since it seemed kind of orthagonal to atheism. But when I read their platform, I thought, “Hey, wait a minute, I support lots of these!” They’re for things like:

  • Equal marriage for gay people
  • Convening a Royal Commission into child sex abuse in the nation’s religious institutions
  • No government-sponsored Internet filter
  • Better sex education in schools

which I think lots of atheists would be down with.

Me with Sarah from the ASP.

Atheist conservatives: here’s your chance to make yourselves known in comments.

Global Atheist Con, Day 1: Me and PZ

The Melbourne morning was bright and clear. I got into town early, found my hotel, and got ready for a weekend of godlessness at the 2010 Global Atheist Convention.

The first get-together was at Chloe’s (link possibly NSFW: nude painting). Too many secularists to count, all shouting to each other to be heard above the din.

PZ Myers was there, of Pharyngula fame. He’s been a blogging inspiration for me. The man’s a machine. He must do at least four blog posts a day. I asked how he did it. His advice: “Don’t rewrite. Just get it out there.” If I could write like he does when he gets going, I wouldn’t edit either.

Unlike me with Good Reason, PZ gets nasty commenters and hate mail. I asked if it bugged him. He immediately said, “No. I relish my role as Internet meanie.”

He battles with creationists regularly, but doesn’t mind the fight. “It’s not as though we’re fighting intelligence,” he says. “It’s not as though we’re fighting knowledge. We’re fighting stupidity. That’s a great thing.”

Afterward, I trammed my way to the convention centre. The GAC officially opened, and it was time for registration and welcomes. A surprisingly high proportion of people I talked to were actually from Perth, and I’d never met them before.

The talks take place in an enormous hall. It was strange to see it crammed full of thousands of people, and to realise that probably just about all of them are atheists. I’ll bet everyone has a story about how they came to be an atheist. Probably a lot of deconversion stories there.

Tomorrow, the talks start in earnest, and I’ll try to blog as many of them as I can.

Missionary chats: What finally did it?

I was talking to one of the Elders. Smart guy. He was aware of the difficulty of trying to believe something that doesn’t mesh. I think lots of missionaries feel that way.

Let’s say your faith is like a building, and you find a problem with the doctrine. You don’t want to trash the whole building, so you build around the problem. But after doing this for a long while, the structure begins to look rather byzantine and arcane. And haphazard. He called it ‘Spiritual Jenga’, which I quite liked.

He asked me, “So what was it that finally did it for you?”

I explained that it was a cumulative process. I became aware of cracks in the plaster, then more and more structural problems until the whole thing came down, despite my best efforts.

“But was there one thing?” he asked.

Well, there was, but it was going to sound stupid.

“Go ahead,” he said.

It was the Tower of Babel.

I’m a linguist, and the idea that all human language diversity came about in the last X-thousand years is not really plausible. The Babel story is clearly a legend to explain the diversity of languages. Lots of cultures have these myths.

But if you’re a Latter-day Saint, you can’t excuse it by saying it’s figurative. According to the Book of Mormon, the Brother of Jared was a real person who was there at the time, and got his family and friends out. The Book of Ether follows their exploits to the New World. You can’t dismiss it. You have to take it as literally as anything in the Book of Mormon.

Well, that pushed the by-now-rickety Spiritual Jenga tower over like a big clumsy housecat. It was a clear and irreconcilable case of Something Not Fitting. It was wrong, and I could see that it was wrong, and there was no way around it.

And even if you’re not a Mormon, you’re not off the hook. Is the Tower of Babel literal or figurative? If it’s literal, where’s the evidence? If it’s figurative, how do you know that? After all, it’s presented as factually as anything in the Bible. What else is figurative? Moses and the Red Sea? Walking on water? The resurrection? If you don’t believe in those things literally, then you have a lot in common with this atheist.

So that was it.

How about you?

Bibles for porn

A pretty edgy idea from Atheist Agenda at the University of Texas at San Antonio: Smut for Smut!

The concept: Trade in a holy book, and get some porn! I think it’s brilliant. Get those Bibles, Qur’ans, and Hubbard books off the streets where they’ll just harm somebody. Those things are full of the most vile misogyny, sex, and violence.

Pornography on the other hand, while not wonderful, is at least better than religion in a few important aspects:

  • Nobody pretends that a god is behind their porn, and that if you don’t accept it, you’ll be damned.
  • Nobody’s ever had a holy war over what kind of porn is better.
  • Nobody tries to legislate other people’s behaviour on the basis of their pornographic values.
  • Unlike religion, there are laws against exposing people to porn if they’re too young for it.

Universities don’t take religions seriously!

I teach at a university. I try to teach students to think well. That means I teach about critical thinking skills, using evidence to support claims, and controlling for bias. (And I hope I don’t forget to exercise those skills myself.)

There are also many people at the university whose job is to teach students to think badly. These are mainly religious groups that regularly encourage reliance on unseen spiritual beings, emotional reasoning, and not challenging deeply-held beliefs.

Dallin H. Oaks is a Mormon apostle. He spoke to Harvard grads recently, and tried to encourage them to think badly. Let’s see how he did this.

1. Insulting secular Americans

Elder Oaks acknowledged that LDS doctrines and values are not widely understood by those not of the LDS faith, and said that his disappointment with that “is only slightly reduced” by research that shows “that on the subject of religion Americans in general are ‘deeply religious’ but ‘profoundly ignorant.'”

By ‘ignorant’, he apparently means ‘someone who has failed to study and/or agree with Mormon doctrine’.

If people are ignorant about religion, doesn’t that mean that churches haven’t done a good enough job teaching it? Sorry, Mr Oaks. Teaching religion is your job. Don’t expect universities to reaffirm your preconceptions.

2. Denouncing universities for not promoting superstition

Elder Oaks said the higher education system was partly to blame for prevailing ignorance about many aspects of Christianity and other religions.

“Many factors contribute to our people’s predominant shallowness on the subject of religion, but one of them is surely higher education’s general hostility or indifference to religion,” he said. “Despite most colleges’ and universities’ founding purpose to produce clergymen and to educate in the truths taught in their chapels, most have now abandoned their role of teaching religion.

I think univerties have pumped out quite enough clergymen, don’t you?

“With but few exceptions, colleges and universities have become value-free places where attitudes toward religion are neutral at best. Some faculty and administrators are powerful contributors to the forces that are driving religion to the margins of American society. Students and other religious people who believe in the living reality of God and moral absolutes are being marginalized.

Universities aren’t positive enough about religion? That’s the best news I’ve heard all week. Universities should marginalise bronze-age mythologies as much as possible. Why should the people wearing the clown-shoes be taken seriously?

3. Elevating scripture and revelation as superior to empirical knowledge.

Elder Oaks said he chose “three clusters of truths to present as fundamental premises of the faith of Latter-day Saints.” Those clusters are:

  • The nature of God, including the role of the three members of the Godhead, and the corollary truth that there are moral absolutes.
  • The purpose of life.
  • The three-fold sources of truth about man and the universe: science, the scriptures and continuing revelation, and how we can know them.

Notice how religion takes up two of the three top spots?

I understand Oaks wanting to spread the word about how great his religion is — a religion whose members view him as an incontestable authority, by the way. He’s supposed to promote his religion. It’s part of the business. But Oaks is barking up the wrong tree if he expects universities to accommodate religions when religions add nothing to the store of human knowledge. All they offer is big stories, and when you challenge the story-tellers to offer evidence, they take refuge in uncertainty, and teach poor reasoning as a protective device. And, it would seem, holler loudly about how educated people just don’t take them seriously.

Religion makes no contribution to these places of science that we call universities. But as Matthew Cobb and Jerry Coyne point out, science can contribute something to religious thought: atheism.

Oh, I really meant to say that agnostics are nicer.

UWA Atheist & Agnostic Society at O-Day

If you’re at UWA tomorrow for Orientation Day (that’s Friday, 19 Feb), why not stop by the UWA Atheist & Agnostic Society tent on the big lawn? I’ll be there signing up new members, debating any believers that feel like a challenge, and trying to drown out the horrible dance music pumped out by nearby groups at high volume the entire day. Should be a lot of fun!

Be sure to tell her. She’ll be surprised.

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