I can tell I’ll be browsing the pages of Australian Rationalist in my spare time. The latest issue is of some interest to me — the cover story is a rational look at Steiner (or Waldorf) schools. My sons went to a Steiner school, and Youngest Boy still does. While I can’t speak for Steiner (or Waldorf) schools everywhere, I find my local Steindorf school to be dangerous in theory, but harmless in practice.
To the article (PDF). What did they get right?
Rudolf Steiner was a fruitcake. But a renaissance fruitcake. As a boy, he thought he was clairvoyant. As an adult, he promulgated his philosophy of ‘Anthroposophy’, and investigated what he called ‘spiritual science’ — an oxymoron. He invented biodynamic farming, sort of a mix of homeopathy, astrology, and organic farming. His followers today think he is the reincarnation of Aristotle. He believed in gnomes.
And because he was concerned about the development of children, he began what is known today as Waldorf education. But it isn’t based on anything empirical. It’s just whatever Steiner thought. From the article:
The whole basis of Steiner education… comes from Steiner’s excursions into what he called ‘spiritual’ or ‘occult science’, which was code for him going into a meditative state, free-associating around a topic, and writing down the results of his ruminations as though they were incontrovertible truth.
This is the essence of cultism — a group where the leader claims special knowledge, and adherents accept his or her teachings as indisputably true, whether the evidence supports them or not.
Using this method he came up with a number of amazing break-throughs in modern thought, such as the importance of burying stag bladders full of yarrow flowers in a field to stimulate the growth of crops!
Yes, it really does get that bad. The local Steiner school is full of this stuff. Homeopaths and crystal-wavers ply their wares at the Open Day. If a kid bangs his or her head in the playground, parents are quick to proffer Bach flower essences. Parents are also enlisted for ‘stirrings’: they use their hands to slosh around water mixed with tiny amounts of manure that has been buried in a cow horn at the Autumn Equinox, which is supposed to be good for crops. I’m not kidding. The Steiner hardcores don’t even seem to want an empirical basis for their beliefs.
And the fruitcakery carries over into the education. Steiner kids aren’t taught to read until age seven — that’s when, according to Steiner, a child acquires its etheric body — again, no evidence for this is provided; Steiner said it, and acolytes believe it. One parent in Australia was told his child would be held back for an unusual reason.
“She thought his soul wasn’t fully incarnated yet, which was strange thing for me to hear at a parent-teacher interview,” he said.
“And then she pulled out some drawings that he’d done which showed him, I guess, looking down, like a plan view of what he was drawing.
“And she used this as evidence that his soul was hovering over the earth and looking down on the earth and so, therefore, she felt that he wasn’t quite ready to move into the following year.”
The point of all this is that if your philosophy of teaching is empirically based, at least you have a pretty good shot of getting it right. If you’re going by what the Guru said, your odds of getting it right will be no better than random chance.
There is clearly no evidential or experiential evidence for such ideas, nor for the many other gratuitous absurdities that riddle Steiner education, so any resemblance between Steiner education and good educational practice is purely coincidental. That a number of children have survived it, and some even thrived, says more about the resilience of the human spirit than about the efficacy of this empirically groundless theory.
Steiner school promote religion in a way that is incompatible with state-funded secular education. This is the one that secular folks should be getting irked about. Steiner schools work as a separate alternative schools. I pay a lot in school fees to make up for the lack of public funding in the local school, and that’s the way I think it ought to be. Anthroposophy may not be a religion, but it is based on esoteric mystic Christianity, and blending it into the state system poses an unacceptable risk of promoting religious beliefs.
Steiner education may not look ‘religious’ on the surface, but it is in fact a bundle of religious ideas dressed up as educational ones. This is what is insidious about it and this is why it has no place in the secular public system.
With all this in mind, I’d say the article somewhat overstates the hazards of Steiner education, especially in raising the specter of German fascism. As a Steiner dad, I haven’t caught any hints of this at all. The tone at the school is warm and fuzzy.
If there is a saving grace for Waldorf education, it’s that, in my experience, very few of the rank and file parents believe the hype. You do get a core of Steiner believers, including the teachers, but almost no one else takes Anthroposophy seriously. Many parents roll their eyes at Eurythmy and such. The kids are usually pretty down to earth about it, too. At a recent Winter Festival, some parents were trying to foster a reverent attitude during the bonfire, but the kids were chanting “More kerosene! More kerosene!” They keep it real.
I also think that the teaching of religion is handled well, as I’ve mentioned before. Many world religions are represented, and I think this has an inoculating influence on kids. They’re more likely to fall for religion in adulthood if it hasn’t been presented to them before, and the Christian myth is presented at school along with all the other myths.
If you’re a rationalist, and you’re considering Steiner education, or if (like me) you’re already in and you’re only just becoming more of a critical thinker, it’s not impossible for it to work. My kids enjoy their school, and it’s been pretty positive. But here are some suggestions.
- It should be used only for younger children. I know perfectly intelligent and capable people who have gone all the way through a Waldorf high school, but I feel bad for anyone who’s been under the influence of Steiner believers for so long. Anyone who believes in gnomes and Atlantis has absolutely no business teaching science at a high school level.
- You must talk to your children about what they’re learning. That way, you can help to moderate any strange ideas they encounter, like fairies. It can even be a good critical-thinking exercise.
- Watch out for areas where they may be falling behind. Steiner kids start reading late, and some may have trouble. For Oldest Boy, some math problems went unnoticed late. This may be because of the absence of testing. Steiner teachers hate standardised tests, even to the point of encouraging parents to opt out of state-mandated tests. (Wonder why.) Give your kids the tests, and monitor the results for areas where they may be falling behind. Help them in a low-pressure way to grasp the concepts they’re going to need when they get to high school. A simple math workbook or reading together can be all it takes. You may be doing those things anyway.
The greatest danger from Steiner schooling is to the rationalist parent, not the child; you may go insane from exposure to crackpottery, or you may eventually bite through your tongue.
17 March 2008 at 12:06 am
“going into a meditative state, free-associating around a topic, and writing down the results of his ruminations…”
This is just the inspiration I needed to finally open up a school based on David Bowie’s ‘Berlin’ period.
But seriously, would you say that your kids are getting an education superior to what they would get at a state school? or, is it more to do with them being settled?
17 March 2008 at 8:44 am
I wouldn’t say it’s superior. I like the way they emphasise certain things like painting, drama, and music.
I don’t like the delaying of reading. Steiner teachers insist that it’s beneficial, and it hasn’t hurt Oldest Boy, who’s now an incessant reader. But still, the lack of evidence for such a practice is disturbing.
They also think TV and computers are really bad for kids. Most parents don’t raise much objection to this, since that’s what they believe anyway. But what’s it based on? Steiner the FrootLoop.
Anyhow, the boys like it, it doesn’t seem to be doing any harm that I can’t undo, and they’re into the arts. So.
6 May 2013 at 10:41 am
"They also think TV and computers are really bad for kids. Most parents don't raise much objection to this, since that's what they believe anyway. But what's it based on? Steiner the FrootLoop."
Um, so you don't like the idea, but agree that most people DO like the idea of less television, yet Steiner's still a FruitLoop?
Just saying…
16 April 2008 at 5:27 am
Interesting thing about ‘gnomes’. Take the term human ‘gnome’ – ie: in relation to DNA. Just thought I’d throw something interesting into the mix…
17 May 2008 at 2:35 am
Hi Daniel!
Yes, it’s me, that girl from your linguistics tute Wed 11am! 🙂 I couldn’t help putting my two cents worth in here, because I actually went to a Waldorf School as well, back when I was still living in Germany.
I have to completely agree with your belief that it’s fantastic for younger children, but not so good when they get older. I honestly believe that my Waldorf education is responsible for my love of art and the early development of my creative ability. I still have all the “Arbeitshefte” with the yellow crayon borders and oodles and oodles of drawings, and even looking at them now, they’re quite good! (Even if I say so myself…)
I also think that the fact that languages are taught from such a young age (in my case, english and french from year 1 onwards) is THE best thing you could possibly do to a child. At such a young age, the brain just absorbs everything like a sponge, and even though most of the time I had no idea what I was saying (that came later, around year 5 or 6), I now possess a near perfect pronounciation of both french and english, even though my mother tongue is german.
To be honest, the whole christian mumbo jumbo is so irrelevant to a child at a young age. Honestly, I think its more the adults who make a big deal about it. I remember saying a prayer once or twice, but it has not left me with any mental scarring. If anything, my religious education at this school has left me more open-minded and accepting towards the beliefs of other people. I loved my religion teacher Frau Hilger, because she taught her classes like a story-time. Every lesson, we would hear a new story, and it just so happened that the main character was mostly called Jesus.
I also remember being taken to a Mosque, a Synagogue and a Cathedral (I was in the ‘protestant’ class, so the Catholics were ‘foreign’ too), which left me with interest in other people’s ways of thinking and a respect towards their ways of life. And personally, I don’t think that’s such a bad thing to foster in a young person. Our world could do with a little bit more open-mindedness and respect for one another.
So yeah, I think that the Waldorf school is a great place for young kids. When they get to year 7, I would let them repeat it in a ‘state-approved’ primary school (which is what I did when I immigrated to Australia, and it was fantastic), and then let them do high school and TEE the normal way. Worked fine for me, is all I can say! 😉
That’s it for my two cents worth,
I’d better get back to my PS trees.
🙂
26 March 2013 at 9:31 pm
Steiner's beliefs were NOT Christian but Anthroposophy, reincarnation, mysticism, esoteric, occult….
14 March 2009 at 5:29 pm
I feel that I was incredibly privileged to attend a Steiner school in my early years and none of the many state school experiences afterwards came near it. The memory of the joy of the seasons, of creating things, music, stories and the general sense of well being has been a bulwark through many a bad time in later life. Although at some points in my teenage-hood I chafed at the strictures of not being able to watch television, in retrospect I think that that was one of the best things that has ever happened to me. Being left to entertain myself I became an avid reader with a rich and vivid imagination and a huge love of the outdoors and a healthy lifestyle. Its worth looking at an education from a child’s point of view, rationalism is as much a conceptual paradigm as anything else.
10 February 2010 at 5:15 pm
I have to thank you for this post–it's what turned me on to your blog. A friend sent me the link when my daughter started coming home from her Waldorf school with some less-than-scientific explanations for how things work in the natural world, and a request from the teacher that we encourage (read: force) our left-handed child to use her right hand. I deeply appreciated your info and advice. Ultimately, we decided to switch to homeschooling for the rest of this year, and go with an expeditionary learning school for next year…Thanks for the post, and the all around great blog!
21 October 2010 at 12:35 pm
i sent my son to a steiner school because the philosophy resinated with my heart felt way of parenting.my son has a disibility,i thought his unique spirit would bloom in such a holistic environment.instead he was bullied and severly sexually assaulted by his pears from 5yrs to 7 1/2yrs when i pulled him out. he now has post traumatic stress disorder and i have spent the last 18mths trying to intergrate him into a mainstreme school. he attends only two days a week and i have to sit at the school all day as he wont use the toilet any more. this whole situation has been a nightmare. i love steiner education it resonates deeply within my being as truth, unfortunetly i didnt realize that most parents who send there kids to stiener schools are like you,dont believe in the theory or practice the beliefs. so mainstreme kids who wanna'pour kerosine on it' attend the steiner school and like it because they can run amuck. the steiner teachers at the school we went to have a massive challange teaching stiener education to the 'spoilt child'(exposure to tv and computer) Thank you for your article it has made me realize how angry i still am at the truma we have been thru.I just dont understand why you and other non steiner parents dont send your kids to mainstream school? having to send my child to a mainstreme school,is actually like a huge punishment for us because it goes against everthing we believe. i cant get my son into another stiener school because there all full. if i could get in im not sure i wanna risk a group of boys pushing a stick up his rectum again or the daily terror they put him thru,because he was smaller more inocent and struggles to use his words.stiener theory would be great if it was stiener practice but unfortunately the school is full of people like you,who dont believe or care about stiener education. you just send your kids there and ignore and laugh at the rules wich are crutial to make steiner education work,when instead there are many many other schools who share your beliefs that your kids could go to. i found your article extremely offensive and i am grateful for that,you laugh at a school that is our greatest dream to attend and yet we cant because its full of mainstream parents like you, who dont even attempt to understand or support the philosophy.again i am just so angry at what has happened to us, my emotional response at the ugliness of this article is making me realize i still have much to learn. thankyou
21 October 2010 at 1:50 pm
My sincere sympathy for the experience you and your son have had. All parents and teachers hope that school will be a good experience, and try to avoid what has happened to you. Good job for pulling him out of there.
I think your anger, while extremely justified, ought to be directed at cruel kids and inattentive teachers — not at rational parents who don't buy into the Steiner superstitions. The blame for the failings of Steiner education belong on Rudolf Steiner himself — and people who cling to his doctrine, even if it obstructs a child's education (as I am finding it does).
3 December 2013 at 3:35 pm
I agree that the anger should be directed at the kids and teachers, and also at the parents, and I'm sorry, but in my experience it's been the hard core steiner believing parents who are the worst and best at projection, and denial. We've been close to steiner schools in 3 states now, and bullying is a massive problem in all of them, with a lot of little boys being anally obsessed or traumatised as well. The woman above with her experience is far more common than I would have believed. My son and daughter were both horrendously bullied, and while they have a huge policy on not watching t.v., and not wearing black, and all the other stuff, they never seem to have effective bullying policies. We call them the most openly closed community around. Full of unspoken mores and cliques and bullshit really. Thanks for writing this 🙂
11 January 2016 at 7:17 pm
Just wanted to say my daughter has experienced subtle bullying from the teacher as well as terrible treatment from other students. I met with the teacher on many occasions to sort it out. One teacher grabs children by the front of their shirts and yanks them. My daughter has come home deeply distressed about the way other children have been treated by the teacher. There is a blaming of the victim in alot of occasions. While i love the philosophy i cant stand my daughter being expose to these behaviours like humiliating children in front of the class. We are not the first family to leave then school because of these things. We are at a loss on who to complain to. Dept of education stay to contact the board of independent school. They say the school pays them to represent them. Stiener edu australia says it needs to be dealt with at the school.
There is no one that governs steiner schools . We know it has happened to children in the past and present. We wish to protect the child of the future but who will pull the school up for their behaviours. It is boardline sect like.
Note that this is only my experiences with one school. I do not wish to tarnish the good work in other steiner school.
Rant over…phew….
11 January 2014 at 12:58 am
So sorry to hear these conversations. I work at a Steiner School and had some input into drafting the Bullying Policies a few years ago. I think that Steiner Schools do attract many people from many different walks of life and so it make for an interesting melting pot of cultures and beliefs.
But isnt that what the world is now. I am so heartened to hear the words of the Mum above with the awful experience for her little boy still standing by Waldorf Education. I also agree that we have many families at our school that just come for the fact that we have a waiting list.
We do our very best to relate to each other as adults so that we can guide the children to be their very best too. It is challenging and it is messy but it is a process and so is life.
Our two daughters (one at primary and one at high school) are well rounded kind hearted strong young women that we are extremely proud of.
Dont discount Steiner without having a good long look at it first – and have a real think about how much you want to live that lifestyle before you decide if it fits your family.
22 October 2010 at 6:30 am
"which was code for him going into a meditative state, free-associating around a topic, and writing down the results of his ruminations as though they were incontrovertible truth."
I know this may rankle with some readers, but actually this is a feminist critique of the way that patriarchy has promulgated a whole host of nasty ideas (whatever comes into a man's mind he imagines is 'true'). Science has probably done more to serve the feminist cause than it realises simply by forcing men to justify their ideas! And it permeates male thinking for the 40 somethings of this world ("whatever comes into my mind is true"). Anthony Storr wrote a brilliant book called 'Feet of Clay' which has a chapter on Steiner as well as other charlatans such as Jung and Freud. You'd love it.
26 November 2010 at 5:44 am
One of my kids goes to Steiner school and I'm totally fed up with it. He's 8 and can only read a few words. Before he started there he could read the alphabet but after a few years completely forgot it. He was held back a year for reasons I couldn't understand. There's screeds of preachy annoying advice coming from the teachers telling us to make the world a beautiful place for soul development. There is more communication about not allowing bratz dolls and ipods and promoting organic food than educational development and learning. When I raise concerns I am ignored, or I'm sent an article by a non doctor anthroposophist in an email. Instead of learning to read and write my poor kid has had years of worm farming and stirring cow dung in a bucket to attract the moon's energy. My intelligence is insulted at every turn. No I can't get my child out (a custody thing). True followers demonise the 'real world' and get about in a patronising dreamlike state. If you want to know what its like at Steiner watch the Wicker Man with Nicholas Cage (creepy).
19 May 2011 at 10:53 am
I'm a parent of a little girl, turning 3 next week. We have just started looking into Steiner education and I have found this thread to be very useful in clarifying my thoughts.
So far we have visited both Brighton and Michael Hall schools here in the UK. I felt that the smaller in Brighton had a real lack of basic facilities but it started my interest into the childs experience.
I myself went to an all girls private school. Parents took on big loans to send me there so never really had much in common with my class mates. I rebelled and got expelled at 16 and enetered the real world moving out of home at the same time. I got a lot from school, good and bad but most of all what I lacked was the confidence needed to believe in myself and my ideas.
So next we went to Michael Hall, the biggest Steiner school in the UK. Since that visit, about 1 week ago, I have been seriously thinking of sending her to this school. The enviornment feels free, the children very happy and able to interact with adults with confidence as well as having great facilities.
I think education is so much more than learning facts and figures. You need skills and languages and this school offers that. With regards to the spirtual side of things I understand the frustration of the parent above, a real believer, unsure as to why someone who isn't 100% into that sort of thing would want to send their child.
I would be one of the parents who doesn't agree with everything. But this isn't about me, it's about my daughter. As with all schools some parents become part of the DNA of it, while others don't. I will always talk to my daughter about what she learns, encourage open healthy debate about issues and subjects, and fill in any gaps I feel are necassary. As you should with any school!
The future of Steiner education is to be inclusive of all beliefs and religions, to help parents communicate and work together to provide a unique and whole view of the world, so that the benefits, which I think are clear to see, can shine through.
9 June 2011 at 11:48 pm
Wow,I;m glad I saw these posts.
Both my daughters are attending pre-school at a Steiner school in the UK and my eldest is due to start in September.
My wife and myself have had a hard time convincing ourselves this type of school is right for them for a lot of the above comments which to my mind at least are at best odd at worst pointless.The schools do attract a certain type of parent,to an outsider loooking in such as myself you could be forgiven and even thanked by some for calling them Hippies,on closer inspection I would thank you for saying a lot are middle class non-conformist social drop out types,yet a lot conform to the same style of clothing,if your the type of person who dresses in whatever they feel comfortable in when going to meetings,you can be left out on a limb and guarded with suspition.
Right having said that,the reasons for sending our kids there are firstly,they keep your kids happy its that simple,kids are not kept quiet they are encouraged to express themselves in teir own unique way thruogh play and role play,music, art and dance.
Secondly I grew up near a Steiner school and a lot of my friends went there and its no accident that most of them are articulate,warm hearted,easy going,fun loving individuals who send there own kids there now.Having said that non of them are academics,but it could be argued that being happy is the precious thing not peices of paper.
So our plan is to sent them there and with our help teach them the Steiner syle social tools until age 7 and then review the situation,we will be teaching basic math and literacy at home as well.If they are bright I dont think that this type of school will get the best out of them and we will move them to state school,Thanks
2 June 2012 at 3:18 pm
Daniel, glad to hear you're son is having a positive experience at Waldorf, however as a previous post pointed out this isn't the case for all children. Please note that Steiner taught that being bullied is part of fulfilling a child's karma (as are various illnesses which is why immunization isn't approved of) which can result in teachers not intervening for fear of disturbing a child's spiritual development. Your school may not have adopted this particular teaching, but I'd strongly advise you to do some research on this subject then question them about their position.
1 September 2012 at 11:16 pm
I'm parent of 3 Steiner kids. We came from a state school background; our oldest boy started school with a keen ability to read that he had picked up years before. Being smug parents, we pestered the teachers to keep our prodigy busy so he wouldn't get bored. So when he got to age ten it was a sobering shock to find our popular and generally happy kid becoming prey to mini emotional break-downs. We realised that he had become an information machine and was backing himself into a corner. Looking around, we found a Steiner school 30 miles away. When the oldest boy was tested by the Waldorf teacher, he said 'Well, he's clever but he can't catch a ball, jump from a desk safely or hit a nail.' He started a full year before his siblings (the school was very far away). When our youngest began state school, he also began wetting the bed. His end of term report (and this is for a five year old) read – 'Joe is completing maths at a primary 3 level; one wonders how much he would achieve if he actually concentrated!'. That was the final straw – we moved kids and house.
There are of course pros and cons. The first and main thing – the curriculum. Despite his many quirks and weird fancies, Steiner came up with a supremely universal education. My oldest who started university recently commented on how much more he seems to know on a wider breadth of topics than his peers . The waldorf curriculum starts building the child from the base up. Class one starts with myths, fables and stories of saints and deities from around the world. Upwards, they move towards Viking sagas and Roman and Greek history. Finally, by class ten or eleven the children are studying twentieth century history, covering revolution, war and sufrage. Nothing is left out and this is really due to the 'Main Lesson', the morning half of the day that lasts for up to a month, covering every aspect of the chosen topic. In state schools, the curriculum is really exam-led. You are only taught what you are likely to be asked in the exam. Waldorf teachers have the leeway to explore and expand on topics as they see fit. It creates a partnership between pupil and teacher and an energy to learn.
But the cons – Yes, anthroposophy is definitely there. But the anthropops mainly seem to be concerned with making the school a happy place for children. Their language might have you rolling your eyes or biting your tongue but I have experienced far worse in state schools. A waldorf teacher will not be muttering about having to miss tea breaks, or doing more than their contract stipulates or threatening to call their union. Waldoft teachers often drive themselves into the ground in their efforts to support the children. But there's another rub – because the same teacher stays with one class the whole way, make sure you know the calibre of your teacher. By far, most Waldorf teachers are excellent. But some are boring, past it or inexperienced. Just a warning! The final issue I think is the college led governing body. Decisions can take ages to be made or the buck is often passed because there is no person for it to stop at. This is especially apparent when it comes to official policy making. So, if there is trouble (as mentioned above) there may well not be a standard policy to deal with it. Waldorf teachers prefer to solve each problem individually, but in this day and age, a case of bullying or abuse needs quick and uniform action. There can be woolyness and lots of inconsistency and that only makes things painful and worse for both pupil and parent. Waldorf teachers hate red tape. State schools have it coming out in drifts and that is the best thing about a Steiner school. They can and will get away with anything the inspectors turn a blind eye too. Your kid can explode illegal chemicals in science, he can climb a tree far higher than any state school would condone and – as our youngest said, (a week before he stopped wetting the bed) 'I can just lie back here with my arms in the mud and be a kid again!'
13 October 2012 at 10:33 pm
Well I'm actually considering steiner for my 12 year old who is currently in public schooling. I mean come on do people actually believe public school benefits children? I believe it spits you out in perfect order, we need shit kickers and high rollers not to mention senseless consumers to keep the economy going. Your head is in the clouds along with carbon tax if you don't see political agendas flow through public schooling. Why is it so bad to allow children to be kids for longer? Or installing humain ideas and truths about the world. Public schools are under to much pressure to do their job properly and they put our children under this pressure to.
14 October 2012 at 4:24 am
I do think that public school benefits children, and that a strong public school system is absolutely essential for the functioning of a free society.
9 December 2012 at 1:38 pm
Having had three children educated in the Steiner system, I can only speak with awe and admiration for the work they do. My son is an airline pilot, one daughter a doctor and the other a freelance journalist. They all started to read 'late' but it didn't disadvantage them one bit. Yes, I agree that some aspects of the education can be overwhelming and a bit odd, but no more odd than some of the absurdities I see unfolding in public education. My children have come into the world balanced people well aware of their moral obligations in the world. You, Adam are a rationalist (which I respect), however rationalism can only take you so far. In ethics it claims that the existence of moral obligations can be derived from reason. If all immoral actions are simply a failure of reasoning, then a moral judgment for a murder is no more harsh than a judgment for getting a math question wrong. Think it through. My children have been given a love of learning and of their schooling, through something extraordinary – an education that celebrates that which is greater than outcomes – the world and their place in it. This is not, in my opinion 'fruitcake talk'. I dare it may resonate in you, if you gave yourself the chance. My children's education was not a religious one, and at no time was I expected to 'conform'. Yes, I'm sure there are many disgruntled ex-Steiner parents, but I suspect this is true of any school or educational system. Thanks for the site and giving me the opportunity to comment.
26 March 2013 at 9:48 pm
How is "the world and their place in it" that which should be celebrated? A family and relationship with parents and siblings etc., gives a child his first sense of identity and belonging. Yet biological family and this world is temporary, and a relationship with God, or without God, is for eternity. Have you taught your children about Truth?
28 March 2013 at 4:35 am
And you shall know them by the telltale squeaking of their clownshoes.
25 May 2013 at 12:23 am
Cadential64, thank you for your response! I have a daughter in the first grade at a waldorf inspired school here in the states and I get a lot of grief from family members who are teachers in the public education system. Your response was done with such respect and elegance, thank you for your sense and contribution to this feed. Your reply also is such a great reminder as to why I chose this style of education for my child.
16 July 2014 at 1:08 am
Dear Cadential64, we are a family living just outside a major metro city and considering sending our two children to the local Steiner school for the reasons you state. We hear a lot about bullying, though. The horrendous abuse written about above in this site is also incredibly worrying. How/have you experienced 'wild' or rough or 'bullying' behaviour in your children's school and how does the school deal with it? Thank you for any advice, we are so highly conflicted because of these risks.
29 March 2013 at 3:29 am
Hi Daniel. I'm confused – who is it that will be identifiable by the squeaking of the aforementioned clownshoes?
29 March 2013 at 4:55 am
I was referring to Heather's comment, not yours.
23 June 2013 at 11:58 pm
I've sent all three of my children to Steiner Schools and have had both positive and negative experiences. On the positive side: there was much less bullying than in a state school. The art work was wonderful. My children developed good art and hand work (knitting & sewing) skills. On the negative side: my children's innocence was taken away from them too soon. At the age of 10 and 11 they were learning disgusting things and vulgar words. I also found that the Steiner teachers could not maintain good discipline. There were a lot of badly behaved children, who would do dangerous things – e.g. lighting aerosol cans with matches in the playground. However, even amongst the Steiner teachers there seems to be a fascination with fire. For example, the St John's Festival – 24 June – they want the children to jump over a fire. They also like to have candles burning in the classrooms. Regarding the religious quackery: I can tolerate this much better than the boring atheism which is preached by most of the children whom my children encounter at these schools. But I suspect a state school would be much the same, in this respect.
24 June 2013 at 5:41 am
I noticed some of these goods and bads, too. I doubt the swearing was any different at other schools, and I wouldn't worry about words being an indicator of innocence lost. On average, 10 or 11 is about right for swear words. Parents just need to explain when such words are appropriate, and model the desired behaviour.
As for the kids preaching atheism, that's the best news I've heard all week.
20 November 2013 at 9:49 pm
I'm re-replying to this, as – a year on from my last reply – I'm training as a Steiner teacher, so I can give gossip from the inside!
It's a 4-Year accredited BA so, whatever shennanigans we get up to, the course has been given government approval. This does not mean that there is no room for crack-pottery – I can see that there is, especially if people are ready to just swallow it verbatim. All of our tutors (and we have many) have introduced their subjects by saying 'Steiner said 'Don't believe what I'm saying, go and out and see how it fits with your own beliefs.' So there is a large amount of room for argument and interpretation. For example, many of the words used which jarr badly these days (incarnations!? Souls? Spirit-self?!) are just big words for theoretical concepts of basic things. So the whole – 7 year olds who haven't 'incarnated' yet. This is the idea that a kid below seven is still growing like mad and, frankly, doesn't have the time, patience or inclination to sit and be pumped full of concepts that are going to fall out of his other ear. When his teeth start to fall out, it's a physical sign that his body is starting to firm up, growing is starting to get there. Maybe now he'll use some of that energy to learn.
That's my modern, crude and very basic interpretation of what 'incarnating' in means. Steiner says it happens again, when we're all getting to puberty. Well, yes. We all probably know how very hard it is for a five year old boy to sit still and fill in a word sheet. Or how easy it is for a teenager to become passionate and angry about issues in a way he wasn't one year before. Trying to explain to a parent that Little Joe's soul is still floating around, not incarnating is probably not useful, especially if mum and dad have no idea what you're saying. But perhaps instead – 'I've studied your child very closely (and really, Steiner teachers spend a lot of time getting to know what makes individual kids tick) – Little Joe is still very dreamy; the reality of commands and knowlege are not going to work on him yet. He's likely to get frustrated, confused and tired.' would work better. I've seen this in my own guinea-pig children, who have been educated in both state and waldorf. A close study of human nature and how it works is basically what Steiner is up to. This is how it is applied in the schools, the tricky words are metaphors.
11 February 2014 at 2:04 am
My sons are both at a Steiner School. There are positives; the social environment is pretty gentle compared with most schools (I'm an educational researcher so I've seen a lot of schools), the school grounds are beautiful and provide a wide range of opportunities for different types of play, and my sons would probably not play the cello if they went to another school. However, the emphasis on conforming to a particular image of child development is stifling. My younger son is doing fine. He's a pretty evenly developed child – sporty, smart across the board, socially well-adapted (in a way that Australians find acceptable). My elder son has poor eyesight and dyspraxia. As a result his learning style tends to be auditory rather than visual. He's a pretty cerebral sort of kid, genius in some areas, limited in others, and somewhat eccentric. This is absolutely not OK in a Steiner School and we are constantly being told what's wrong with him and how he needs to change in order to fit their model of development. In spite of Steiner's emphasis on questioning his ideas, the very prescriptive curriculum seems to set his teacher in aspic – she has absolutely no idea how to make minor changes to help my son learn, e.g. using lined paper to write on to help with his visuo-spatial difficulties. His working memory and verbal reasoning test on the 100th percentile (I didn't even know they did it to the 100th percentile) and he has outstanding maths abilities but these are "inappropriate to his age" and so cannot be developed. In addition, his teacher complains endlessly that she has 28 children in a class so how could she possibly teach him any maths? He didn't watch television until he was six and now watches about an hour a month, we are a very fit and active family and physical activity has always been an important part of our lives and hubby and I are both ecologists so we all spend most of our lives in the outdoors. My elder son is the way he is just because that's the way he is. I love him to bits for it, don't think he needs changing in any way and think it's all just a combination of genetics (read previous lives if you're more comfortable with that explanation) and bad eyesight. We're left with the conclusion that Steiner schools are for people who want to play Beethoven or Mozart, not to be Beethoven or Mozart. Beethoven himself would have been told that his listening skills were poor and he needed to develop these before composing music, Mozart would have been told his piano playing skills were too precocious for a lower primary child (sometimes it's the humour that gets you through!)
4 March 2014 at 11:48 am
Where (what country) is this Steiner school? Just wondering how different they are school to school as we are looking into it
17 March 2014 at 1:07 am
Interesting points from everyone.
My take on Steiner education (and I have a son who has attended two Steiner schools in Australia, and I have taught part-time in a Steiner senior school:
If I send my offspring to a private denominational school (e.g. a catholic school) then he will be actively taught the beliefs, and expected to be a
But at a Steiner school, the children aren't taught anything about the Steiner philosophy.
While there is an underlying 'christian' philosophy running through the school, any information the children get tends to be in the form of stories, rather than presented as facts.
As someone who is a confirmed atheist, with no spirituality whatsoever, sending my boy to a Steiner school might seem strange – but the bottom line is that the teachers care, individually, for each child.
the outcome, from what I have seen, is that the children are instilled with a desire (and ability) to learn for themselves.
At the senior level this is amply demonstrated when you walk into a classroom – with the students helping one another, explaining, proof reading, encouraging one another, in a way I simply haven't seen in any other school.
9 August 2014 at 12:28 pm
Such an interesting post, and replies. My son is in prep at a Steiner school. He attended a Montessori kinder for 2 years prior. Although I appreciated the child-centred approach of Montessori, I found it limited socially. My son wanted to free play with the other children, but instead was directed to solitary 'jobs'. I knew Montessori wasn't for him and started exploring Steiner. At open days and school tours, Steiner was presented as a wholesome, child-centred, play-based, gentle approach to learning. I was drawn by the aesthetics and home-feel of the school, the gentleness and thoughtfulness of the teachers, and an instinctive belief that Steiner schooling would be progressive and encourage my children to be humane, resilient, worldly citizens. Principally, my attraction to Steiner was anti-mainstream. I was underwhelmed by my own schooling experiences – I excelled, but never felt 'seen' or inspired – and above all wanted my children's schooling to be an experience in its own right rather than a practice-run for adulthood. This is what continues to draw me to Steiner schooling.
We have nearly two years under our belts now. So far, predominantly it has been a good experience. Our teacher is lovely, engaged, chants the mantras but accepts that everyone is on their own path. My son adores her, and the class assistants. Something that surprised/s me is the feral tone of the prep boys' play, in particular. Maybe that's how it is everywhere – I don't know. It just seemed out of kilter with the otherwise pervasive sense of wholesomeness. Lectures on media are de rigeur in newsletters, emails and parent teacher nights. Despite being an adult and parent, it's hard not to feel like a chided child on this issue. It seems like an easy criticism in a modern era. Just as I don't believe faceless dolls are the gateway to an evolved childhood I also don't believe an hour of ABC2 every other day is destiny for a ruined childhood.
The thing I have most appreciated about our experience so far is the sense of belonging and community that is abundant at the school. Other parents bend over to help each other out, selflessly. Our school is small and offers only one class per year, so there is a sense of sharing destinies together that adds a layer of enjoyment to observing our children's connections and budding friendships. The wholesomeness of the school and community also inspires me to be more thoughtful than I might otherwise have been about things like choosing unprocessed foods, pop culture promulgation through consumption (clothes, toys), and so on. There is pressure, as a parent, to join the fold in adopting the symbols and rituals. For me, it's important to stay open while also engaging critical thought about what's being advocated.
Whatever school my children attend, I don't expect it to be perfect. It's my role to observe for gaps (that are important to me/us), assess the overall balance of strengths versus weaknesses, and play an active role in filling gaps where I can to try to re-balance. I expect this would apply wherever they were. Next year will be a whole new ball game when we get our class 1-8 teacher. So much depends on their quality and our compatibility. We'll see how it unfolds.
30 October 2014 at 2:52 am
As a teacher who has switched from mainstream to teaching in a Waldorf school I have to say, predominantly, they have a fantastic educational model. Were they to chuck out some of the peripheral, extraneous anthroposophical dogma, they would have the "killer app" of education.
I wouldn't be fussed about the delay in reading, I personally think that children's imagination lives in fragile neural territory which could get extinguished should we overdo the whole text thing too early.
The "killer app" aspect is their use of the arts to compile a brain which communicates well across its strange evolutionary segmentation.
If you think about it, we have layers of quite different brain types which need to make sense of reality in a unified way. Broad range arts experiences are the weapon of choice to forge good communication across the brain. So even eurythmy is now OK by me (I originally thought it to be IN-fuc…_SANE). I think that one works (when delivered pragmatically) because it stirs connections across the brain from language to balance to memory and visualisation. Done well it can be a BIG brain challenge.
I teach mathematics and physics to senior students in the school and find them fundamentally different in the way they take on knowledge. It seems like, when I give them an idea, that idea drops into minds familiar with looking at things from many angles and through playing with context etc. They bounce back to me perspectives and questions which I have quite often never heard in the decades teaching the exact same content in mainstream.
Great educational model if you have a Waldorf school which underplays the anthoposophical. It's too hard to pronounce anyway.
28 April 2015 at 10:09 am
Thanks for sharing the post.. parents are worlds best person in each lives of individual..they need or must succeed to sustain needs of the family.
A G L
29 January 2016 at 4:14 am
Hi.
I’d like to put in my 2-cents worth into this debate as an ex-student of Michael Hall (Georg Locher was my wonderful Class teacher of 1969-1972); I also studied Waldorf Education in comparison to Public Education in the UK at University as an Independent Study course as my B.A Undergraduate level and obtained my P.G.C E in Education as a State trained teacher as well as training as a Waldorf teacher at Rudolf Steiner House in Baker Street. I taught in the Ringwood school as a Class Teacher directly after that training in 1988. I have taught TEFL around the world as well as Primary education in State education in both the UK and Israel (I’m a dual national resident).
I therefore feel I have a very unique perspective on both Anthroposophy, Rudolf Steiner and his Spiritual Scientific perspective and ideas; and Waldorf education (not as a parent but as a student and teacher); and having taught in the UK and many other countries as well (Israel; Poland; Thailand and Italy).
First off, I’m a huge fan of Waldorf Education but recognise that its weaknesses are there as well as its strengths. No pedagogy or methodology is perfect once it is taken off the page and applied into the real world. This is especially true for a very alternative philosophy such as Steiners. He was very “out there” in his time (1862-1925) when Science and Materialistic thought was in its infancy and not as mainstream as it is today in the 1st world or developed world. Many other countries with a more esoteric religious background (Thailand or African countries) talk naturally about spirits and ancestors without conflict over proof or scientific evidence. I feel that the cultists that the Steiner movement attracts who blabber on about “Steiner says this or that” are the same weak minded individuals who are easily led by any forceful and powerful individual or sect or religion. He constantly warned his audience to “think for themselves and question and study all of his work”. But people are lazy and mindless and want trite McDonald’s answers. Plus his books are hard to read and in German and technical. And when people encounter words like “etheric or angels” they get scared and close down their open mind to anything outside the scientific and provable. Much of what he offered as “explanation and proof” can’t be materialised and is seen by “progressive ” societies as hokum and stupid. Understandable but it misses the main point of Anthroposophy and Steiner’s whole work. He was offering a different answer to us as humans and “spiritual beings”. The education system known as Waldorf is to assist in developing these newly born beings into this amazing world and gently introduce the world to them in rhythm with their age and growth. His indications linked to his work in Anthroposophy tries to help this growing and development. Such as starting Lower School at 7 yrs old; learning with a single teacher (like ones “guru and role model) etc. Imperfect as we might see it, especially if the College of Teachers don’t choose a wise person to be the right Class teacher, the core values and intention are correct (in my humble opinion). I went to Michael Hall and late was 4 yrs in a state comprehensive. Bullying went on each system and is a blight inside schools world wide. Kids are horrible to each other and no amount of spirituality and Eurythmy is going to stop mean brats being so.
I am a much better person for my Waldorf schooling and as a lefthanded Israeli Jew, I was told off for these “weaknesses” during my schooldays by my teachers and whilst reading Steiner’s philosophy. Judism was finished when the Christmas entered the Spiritual plane. It doesn’t make any sense now than it did then. I’m an Israeli and Jew and extremely proud to be so; but I acknowledge his arguments and point of view and move on regardless. It doesn’t negate all of the rest of his philosophy. I don’t everything and never will. The best ending point that I took away and still use constantly is this thought: the education gave me the tools to look for answers in my life to these 3 great questions. One: who am I? Two: why am I here? And three: and what can I do to help and improve the world and humanity around me (my purpose of my being born?). No other education or philosophy or teacher has ever posed or attempted to ask or answer these questions. Right or wrong in the realisation and method of trying to make a daily 21st century relevant “modern” version for today’s world is enormously hard but ultimately doable with will and love. I wish you all good luck in finding an education and health and joy for your family. From an independent ex-teacher and now business owner.
21 April 2016 at 10:36 am
Steiner blew my mind! I see people in a whole new way. Most importantly, I see myself in new way. There was a time when I was traveling and pondering the depths of the mind and how I came to “be who I am”… What are thoughts? Feelings? How is it that they trigger each other? Things of that nature. That was really manic and challenging. But I prayed to find some sort of reconciliation between my Christian upbringing and the powerfully freeing experiences I had while “losing myself to find myself”. The former didn’t lack any powerful experiences either. “Baptism in the spirit”. I found the fifth gospel by Steiner the day after I spoke that prayer. I think that “followers” of Steiner or anyone else for that matter are constantly imposing their own ego on others, justifying that by the rightness of their “leader”. The person they are following did not intend this.
Steiner was all about increasing the minds capacity to conceptualize of brushes with the unknown or Devine side of humanity. But he new that what he was saying wasn’t the “perfected truth that must be recieved blindly”. Steiner school children will have to face all similar challenges to their development as a child in any other school/ just different ingredients. Blah blah blah, he did his best to rationalize fairy tales. hopelessness darkens the mind, hope in falsehoods is probably worse. But at the end of the day life must be entering courageously into uncertainty with bright eyes and an open heart.