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Category: apologetics (page 3 of 3)

Michael R. Ash commits if-abuse

Religious apologists are fond of using the trappings of science. Maybe it’s because science poses the greatest challenge to their claims (so they’d better sound like they know about it), and maybe it’s because they’re trying to borrow science’s credibility.

But it’s not easy to see exactly how the efforts of apologists and true believers are different from real science. I think I’ve worked it out. And since it’s a shame to leave it buried in the comment section of the Undying Thread, I’m pulling it up here into the light.

Here’s how it works according to science. It takes evidence to establish a claim. The more extraordinary the claim, the more evidence it takes. Without that evidence, the claim is rejected. The starting point is an assumption that the claim is not true. Basic stuff.

For example, I do not believe that there was ever a significant population of Hebrew or (reformed) Egyptian speakers in North or South America during alleged Book of Mormon times because there’s no evidence for it. No fragments of Hebrew script, no Egyptian loan words in existing languages. But future discoveries could overturn my disbelief.

Apologists and true believers do it the opposite way. The religious belief is assumed to be true without adequate evidence. Religious claims are accepted as long as they’re not specifically refuted by enough evidence. And the more deeply held the claim, the more evidence it takes to disabuse them of it.

Of course, it’s impossible to amass enough evidence to convince a true believer. For one thing, you can’t prove a negative. For another, many of their claims are not even falsifiable. And evidence can be ambiguous, so it will never disconfirm their view 100 percent. Which means that you can bring alternate explanations and evidence that refutes their view all day long, and they’ll just cling to the sliver of probability that remains, saying “I could still be right.” That sliver of hope is all they need.

So this is the tack that Mormon apologists have to take. They must know that there’s no evidence to establish their view, but as long as they can muddy the waters enough to create a sliver of possibility — redefining words, finding loopholes, and creating fanciful hypothetical scenarios — the faithful are satisfied and don’t notice that there’s not enough evidence to establish their claims.

We, as scientists and critical thinkers, do ourselves a disservice when we play the game their way. Trying to argue them down to zero probability is impossible, but that’s not our job. The burden of evidence is on them to establish their claims.

With that very long intro, let’s take a look at Michael R. Ash’s latest. This one’s about the word ‘Lamanite’. He’s already admitted that you can’t find DNA from Lamanites in current Native American populations, but the lack of evidence isn’t going to stop him from believing in them. He argues that their DNA was ‘subsumed‘ into a larger population — a wildly improbable event.

Ash details the problem:

If we theorize that the Lehites in the Book of Mormon were a small incursion into a larger existing New World population, and that their DNA was swamped out by the dominant and competing haplogroups,

Remind me: why were we theorising that? Because it’s well-supported by evidence? No, because it allows the religious theory to maintain a sliver of probablity. Carry on.

…some members may wonder who — of the surviving modern populations — are the “Lamanites”? In the Doctrine and Covenants, for example, the early Saints are directed to go preach to the Lamanites. How could the Native Americans in Joseph’s world be Lamanites?

It’s worse than that. If you can’t find any genetic Lamanites, how is the Book of Mormon going to come forth unto them? How are they going to ‘blossom as the rose‘? The redemption story falls apart.

Ash’s answer: Redefine the word ‘Lamanite’ away from genetics and toward culture.

The answer is found in culture and genealogy.

While culture is learned and typically passes from parents to children, people can change cultures or assimilate into different cultures. Thus we have Americans who are culturally American, although they (or their ancestors) might have come from Africa, Europe, Asia, or many other parts of the world. Terms such as “African,” “Asian,” “Jew,” “LDS,” “Indian,” and so forth are social constructs, not biological or genetic classifications.

Shorter: Cultural terms are just constructs, so it’s okay to refer to people by a term that was completely made up by some guy.

Finally, we have genealogy, or one’s ancestry. Everyone has two parents, and each parent has two parents. If you go back two generations (to your grandparents) you have four ancestral slots filled by two grandfathers and two grandmothers. As we go further back in our genealogy the number of ancestral slots increases geometrically.

Fail. He means ‘exponentially‘.

Update: No, I fail. See comments.

These slots don’t represent the actual number of ancestors, however, because intermarriage among relatives will cause some ancestors to fill multiple ancestral slots.

No, silly, it’s because parents can have more than one child. So each person on earth doesn’t require two unique parents; lots of people will have the same parents. Minor point, but it is a worry that he’s not good at understanding things.

If we could create a genealogical chart for a modern Native American back to Lehi’s generation we would have over 1 octillion ancestral slots (that’s more than 1 trillion times 1 quadrillion). Now obviously he would not have 1 octillion ancestors (there haven’t been that many people in the entire history of the world). Some ancestors would fill many of these ancestral slots. Nevertheless, on a genealogy chart, there would be 1 octillion ancestral slots. From how many slots would our Native American be descended? All of them. If Laman (or a descendant of Laman) was an ancestor in just one of these 1 octillion ancestral slots, then it can legitimately be claimed that our Native American is a Lamanite descendant.

Wow, the descendants are all Lamanites even if there was just one real Lamanite in an octillion?

What if there was none? No Lamanite ancestors at all. Because that’s the way it’s looking.

We can discount Ash’s complex web of theorising at one stroke, because there’s literally no evidence for Lamanites. But he’s working the opposite way: if we assume that the Book of Mormon is true, and if this incredibly improbable genetic swamping happened, and if words mean what he redefines them to mean, and if there’s one Lamanite back in the genealogy, and if you put on these special 3D glasses and squint a bit, then it’s remotely possible that the Mormon view could still be right. And you can keep going to Church, pay tithing, and stop worrying.

I’ll ask it again: What’s more likely, that Ash’s very complex and improbable overlapping scenarios happened in such a way as to not leave any evidence? Or that someone wrote a fake book?

Ash is once again redefining words and constructing fanciful hypotheticals to create a semblance of plausibility for his religious theory. That’s not good enough. He needs to bring publicly verifiable evidence.

Book of Mormon genetics, or the Incredible Vanishing Hebrews

Michael R. Ash is an LDS apologist, which is kind of like being a scholar, except that instead of making knowledge, you make excuses. His latest article at the Mormon Times tackles the DNA issue.

The DNA issue is a problem. The Book of Mormon purports to be the story of people of Hebrew ancestry (sometimes called ‘Lehites’) who traveled to the Americas. We should expect a healthy percentage of their descendants to have DNA that corresponds to that of a Hebrew population. But DNA studies have shown fairly conclusively that people in this region test up Asian. At this point, it would be reasonable to conclude that the Book of Mormon represents a failed hypothesis. But this is very difficult for True Believers to do without saying ‘yes, but’ and ‘what if’. Many would rather listen to LDS apologists like Ash, who sing the faithful back to sleep, and delay the advance of knowledge. Let’s see what he’s come up with this time.

As noted in an earlier column, I believe the scientific world is part of God’s truth. Therefore, I not only accept the current DNA studies as accurate, I also don’t believe God simply changed Nephite and Lamanite DNA to Asiatic DNA in order to fool scientists. While God certainly has power over all things, I can’t accept that he intentionally deceives us.

I’d like to give Ash props on this, but I can’t. True, he gets the little things right, but his actual commitment to science is paper-thin, ready to be discarded in favour of far-fetched scenarios when it comes down to it. I could say he has a form of science-ness, but he denies the power thereof. I would rather he were hot or cold.

Ash (along with other apologists) argues that it’s not possible to find Lehite DNA because…

We don’t know what “Israelite” DNA from Lehi’s time looks like. We have a general idea of what the DNA of modern Middle-Eastern populations looks like, and we know that as of today it has not been detected among Native Americans, but because we don’t know anything about the DNA of Lehi’s party, we can’t exclude that it could fit among the multiple Asiatic markers we find in modern Native Americans.

I’m not a geneticist. (Although, neither is Ash.) But from my reading, this claim seems untrue. This work has been done, and Native Americans and Hebrews appear to have very little mtDNA in common.

If it’s so difficult to track DNA, then why are geneticists able to do it for other groups? I ran across this description of the Lemba, an African group that claims to have split off from the main body of Israelites, and who in fact do carry the Cohen modal haplotype, a marker of Hebrew origin. If it’s possible to track this group after so long (and on the Y-chromosome, no less), why not the descendants of the Lehites?

Ash again.

DNA markers can disappear. According to virtually all scientists who specialize in DNA as it pertains to population genetics, when small populations mix with large populations there is a significant possibility of losing the DNA signatures of the smaller population.

Genetic bottlenecks, for instance, occur when a significant portion of a population does not reproduce or doesn’t pass mtDNA on to its progeny. If the original Nephites and Lamanites had mostly sons rather than daughters, for example, those sons would have married native women and the mother’s DNA — not Lehi’s wife Sariah’s DNA — would have passed on to the children.

This is a big leap. In order for Ash’s argument to hold, the Lehite women would have to have had no babies. Or babies, but no girls. Usually, the proportion of boys to girls will be about 50:50 for good-sized populations. How come no girls in this case? Were the Lehites into female infanticide? Or were the Lehite girls just not very popular? Are we to assume that none of the maternal Lehite line got through?

Ash’s scenario is incredibly improbable, but it gets worse. For Ash to be right, the same bottleneck would have to have happened twice, once with the much-earlier Mulekites, and again with the Lehites.

So once again, it’s the Incredible Vanishing Hebrews Who Leave No Artifacts. At some point you have to ask yourself: What’s more likely – that an incredibly improbable genetic bottleneck happened twice (and it conveniently coincides with the framework of speculations that Ash promotes elsewhere) — or that someone wrote a fake book?

Wait: I’ve just had a revelation. I’ve just figured out why Lehites left no DNA.

Lehi and Sariah were actually Native Americans. They traveled by boat to get to the Middle East, like Thor Heyerdahl in reverse. That could explain how they were able to navigate the trip back to the Americas so easily. In fact, since so many people from the Book of Mormon were cruising over to the New World, it must have been a piece of cake in either direction. I’m sure that when we finally get those large plates of Nephi, Lehi’s genealogy will turn out just like I say. After all, my evidence is just as solid as anything Ash has written.

In Mormon apologetics, two wrongs do make a right.

Michael R. Ash of the Mormon Times has been constructing a case for non-Lehite inhabitants of ancient America. The story is advancing slowly, but it takes a long time to dismantle statements from past church leaders, and to redefine words like ‘true’, ‘correct,’ ‘historicity’ and ‘verisimilitude’.

In case you missed it last time, here’s the problem: If the ‘Lehites’ — Hebrew immigrants to the Americas — were the only ones there, why don’t we see their DNA in current populations? How do we explain the incredible linguistic diversity of the Americas from just a few speakers of Semetic languages? Why don’t Native American languages today appear to have any trace of Hebrew or Egyptian? And as we discussed before, why is Ash having to explain away statements from Church leaders who believed that the land was empty except for the Lehites?

Ash and other LDS apologists have concluded that the land really was inhabited before the Lehites came along. (Which is quite correct, except for the part about the Lehites coming along.) However, the Book of Mormon has some trouble fitting into this model, in part because of the puzzling failure of the Lehites to mention anyone not of Hebrew origin in the Book of Mormon narrative.

In his latest column, Ash gives two possible reasons why the Nephites didn’t mention the ‘other people’ they were surrounded by:

1) the early material from Large Plates — which may have mentioned “others” — was not included in our English translation

This resembles the logic that George W. Bush used when WMDs weren’t found in Iraq: Maybe they’re over there! No? How about over there? Don’t worry, we’ll find ’em someday.

Okay, so the Lehites might have mentioned ‘others’ in the Large Plates. They also might have mentioned potatoes and pumpkins, which they almost certainly ate, but which don’t get a mention in the Book of Mormon. Who knows? It might be true, but it seems a bit (again) prestidigitatious to push the possibility onto a book that no one has access to.

And this is part of the problem with some of Ash’s arguments: they’re terribly speculative. Is it wrong to speculate? Well, no, not always. But Ash is asking us to believe his speculations, having just trashed a lot of speculations by LDS leaders who are much more authoritative than he is. Should we believe Michael Ash, or Joseph Smith? Or I’ve got an idea. How about neither?

and 2) the Small Plates were focused on the ethnogenesis and religious ministry of the Nephite people and would have been unconcerned with any “others” in such a narrative.

Hmm. Tell me more.

From a close reading of the Book of Mormon text, we find that Nephites and Lamanites were sociopolitical names. The Book of Mormon writers were Nephites, and virtually everyone else is referred to with the exonym Lamanite (the term “Lamanite” will be discussed in greater detail in the near future).

Well, I am impressed with the word ‘exonym’. Should be a corker if I can use it in Scrabble on a triple word score. And I can’t wait for him to redefine ‘Lamanite’. Perhaps it will mean ‘person with no DNA whatsoever’.

But I’m getting away from the point. Ash (and now-frequent commenter Seth R.) are arguing that the Lehites didn’t really care so much about the hoards of original inhabitants around them. They never wrote about them because they weren’t in the habit of writing about people not of their group. You know how ethnocentric those ancient people were! (Oh, you don’t? I’m betting Seth and Mr Ash don’t either.)

Of course, this is flat wrong. Lehites in the Book of Mormon do in fact run into other people, and write about them. They run into the ‘people of Zarahemla‘ (which Latter-day Saints now call Mulekites), who allegedly came from bible lands in a different group from the Lehites.

Mulekites, for their part, also encountered and wrote about someone not of their own tribe: Coriantumr. He was supposed to be a decendant of the Jaredites, also allegedly from the Middle East.

So people in the Book of Mormon do find and write about people not of their own immediate group. But they never encounter any of the real native inhabitants of the Americas, like we’d expect them to. They just keep bumping into people from the Middle East. (What are the odds?) And why? I think it’s because the author of the Book of Mormon really was advancing a hypothesis that the Hebrews were the only ones there. The Book of Mormon is an origin myth, attempting to explain how people got to the New World. A hundred and fifty years ago, the idea that they came from the land of the Hebrews was a plausible hypothesis, but the idea has been thoroughly dismanted by a century of evidence from archaeology, anthropology, genetics, and linguistics.

Notice once again that Ash doesn’t advance any testable notions of where Lehites were. He doesn’t have to. All he has to do is blur things so that his preconceived conclusion could be true. Maybe it is true. Maybe not. As long as it preserves the faith, what does it matter?

Let’s move on. The next part is genius.

Another of the weaknesses of the Book of Mormon is that it postulates an absurdly fecund population model once the Lehites arrive. There’s no way you could have as many people as the Book of Mormon claims from just the Lehites. But watch the jiu jitsu: Ash uses this problem to cancel out the problem of the invisible ‘others’!

Within 15 years, Joseph and Jacob were made priests and teachers “over the land of my (Nephi’s) people” (2 Nephi 5:26). We read that within 25 years of their New World arrival, the Nephites were at “war” with the Lamanites. What kind of “war” could possibly exist with the few adults that may have been around without the infusion of pre-existing cultures?

Fifteen years later, some of the Nephite men began desiring “many wives and concubines” (Jacob 1:15). How many women could there have been if there were no others besides the original Lehite party?

By about 200 B.C. “corn” (American maize) is mentioned as the grain of preference among the Lamanites (Mosiah 7:22, 9:14). Corn, a uniquely American grain, could not have been brought from Lehi’s world and could not have been discovered wild upon arrival because of its complex cultivating techniques that will only reproduce new corn with human care. This strongly implies that others already were cultivating corn and taught the technique to Book of Mormon peoples.

Beginning about 500 years after the Lehites arrived, we read about “thousands” or even tens of thousands of warring soldiers. Such a rapid population growth would not have been possible without the presence of “others.”

This is amazing stuff. I wonder if I could try that.

You know how people criticise the Book of Mormon for containing the word ‘adieu‘? Of course, Joseph Smith could have used any French words he knew when translating, but I have a better answer. French speakers might have migrated to ancient America, swimming over on horses, which is why Book of Mormon people had them. After all, it must be trivial to migrate from Jerusalem to some undefined point in North/South/Central America. The Book of Mormon describes it happening on three separate occasions, so it could have happened again. There’s nothing you can’t do as long as you have the Lord, and enough barley for your swimming horse.

People say that the use of swords and cimeters in the Book of Mormon is anachronistic. But they haven’t considered the real source of swords and cimeters: the post-mortal Paul, who might have minstered unto the Lehites through time travel. Here he distributed cutlery unto the Lehites, and also gave his famous (through eerily New Testamental) discourse about charity, which eventually filtered down to Moroni.

Damn, I hope Ash is getting paid for this. It’s hard work. Doing apologetics with this kind of material, I mean. Well, that and getting paid for something that others would gladly do for free.

UPDATE: It occurred to me that Paul didn’t have to be ‘post-mortal’ if he had a time machine. He could have been alive when he handed the scimeters to the Lehites (and subsequently collected them so as not to leave evidence). But whether he was alive or not at the time hasn’t yet been revealed. It must not be important for our salvation. As always, prayer is the only way to really be certain of my conclusions, like I am. Really certain.

Dismissing Book of Mormon problems

I’ve been reading the work of one Michael R. Ash, an apologist with the Mormon Times. He may have overcome ‘shaken faith syndrome’, but he’s made the mistake of embracing the more dangerous ‘True Believer syndrome’ — a troublesome but common condition that involves the epistemological gymnastics you perform when you’ve decided to defend a belief system no matter what, instead of trying to find out what’s actually true.

In his latest posting, he tries not to advance a theory of Book of Mormon geography — that would require the use of pesky facts — but instead to dismiss inaccuracies in Book of Mormon geography. The title: ‘Dismissing Book of Mormon geography inaccuracies‘.

One issue that relates in important ways to Book of Mormon geography is the human composition of the ancient Americas. The traditional LDS folk-belief asserts that the Lehites arrived to a nearly vacant New World, with the possible exception of some Jaredite survivors and the Mulekites. This tradition implies that virtually all Native Americans are descendants of exclusively Book of Mormon peoples.

Folk-belief. I remember LDS folk-belief, but it was always stuff like “If you’re fat, you’ll be resurrected as a fat person.” or “An elephant’s spirit looks like an elephant.” Can it still be folk-doctrine if it’s in the scriptures? Or taught by Joseph Smith, or someone else that you could be accused of apostasy if you ignore. Well, to Mr Ash, if a prophet said it, and then reality contradicts it, the prophet wasn’t wrong — it was ‘folk-belief’ all along.

I must say, I find his approach a bit prestidigitatious. Like cherry-picking in reverse.

Okay, so how did Mormons get the silly idea that place was vacant except for migrating Hebrews?

1. The Book of Mormon narrative never mentions anyone but the putative Hebrew inhabitants. If the place was crawling with people before any Hebrews arrived, the Mulekites and Nephites never ran across them.

2. The Book of Mormon explicitly states that the knowledge of the land was kept from other people.

And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance.

3. Church leaders taught it. Two examples of many:

“We beleive that the existing Indian tribes are all direct descendants of Lehi and his company, and that therefore they have sprung from men all of whom were of the house of Israel.”
– Apostle James E. Talmage, The Articles of Faith, p.293

“With pride I tell those who come to my office that a Lamanite is a descendant of one Lehi who left Jerusalem some 600 years before Christ and with his family crossed the mighty deep and landed in America. And Lehi and his family became the ancestors of all of the Indian and Mestizo tribes in North and South and Central America and in the islands of the sea, for in the middle of their history there were those who left America in ships of their making and went to the islands of the sea.” Spencer W. Kimball, “Of Royal Blood,” Ensign, July 1971

Were they wrong? Mormon apologists like Ash would like us to think so (and in fact I agree, but for different reasons). But if Mormon leaders are considered to be authoritative on many other matters pertaining to Mormon doctrine, doesn’t it seem a bit convenient to downplay only some of the things they say just because they’ve been refuted by evidence?

Back to the article.

Early American settlers were fascinated with the fact that the New World was already inhabited by indigenous people. From where did these people originate? A number of frontiersman theorized that the Indians were remnants of the ten lost tribes of Israel. At first blush, this theory seemed to fit fairly well with the overall story of the Book of Mormon, however, the Book of Mormon peoples did not purport to come from any of the “lost tribes.

More sleight of hand. It’s true that the Book of Mormon doesn’t say they’re from the ‘lost tribes’, but it does say that they’re Hebrews. And if that’s the case, why don’t we see (for example) Hebrew or Egyptian writing on artifacts, any evidence of sacrifices pertaining to the Mosaic law, or any evidence from genetics, linguistics, anthropology, or archaeology?

If Mr Ash wants to do something useful and advance knowledge, he can come out and give his list of the most likely candidate sites for any aspect of Book of Mormon geography, according to the best evidence we have. If he can get his work published in a peer-reviewed journal, so much the better. But I doubt he will. Apologists don’t try to advance ideas. They just try to hide from the facts, take refuge in uncertainty, sing the faithful to sleep, and scrub the record of any statements from authorities that have turned out to be wrong.

Here be weasels

If you take it upon yourself to argue with Christian creationists, you have to know the regular stuff: biology, the second law of thermodynamics, flood hydrology, DNA, optics, embryology.

But if you decide to take on Mormon apologists, you have to have a passing knowledge of all of the above, plus archaeology, linguistics, and Meso-American metallurgy. There’s just no telling what they’ll throw into the mix.

I’ve just discovered Mormon Times writer Michael R. Ash. He makes money as an apologist for FAIR, a Mormon confabulation factory. His job is to disguise the lack of evidence for Mormon doctrines until the church can safely write them out of the canon. They call it ‘Mormon scholarship’, but ‘Mormon scholarship’ is scholarship like ‘Christian rock’ is rock. In his latest article, he complains about the lack of respect.

Shorter Michael Ash
Countering subversive attacks on Mormon scholarship

It’s so unfair that anti-Mormon scientists ‘poison the well’ by dismissing our arguments out of hand. But their claims are invalid because they haven’t read the Book of Mormon cover to cover.

It makes you wonder why he’s addressing the need for science at all, though, when he also claims that questions of the Book of Mormon’s truthfulness

can only be answered on a spiritual level — through faith, humility and personal study and prayer.

And only by carefully defining words like ‘true’, ‘correct’, and ‘historicity’ so as not to include anything that normal people mean when they use those words.

I’m looking forward to many cobbled-together bad-faith arguments in future.

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