During one of those browser free-association moments, I found myself staring at the Mormon.org website. That’s the focus for their proselyting efforts on the Web.
Here’s something that really curdled my cream.
What’s the Point of Having a Family If It All Ends at Death?
I wanted to have a family but wondered what would be the point of having one, if it all ended at death.
I wanted a sandwich, but wondered, “What’s the point of having a sandwich if it’s just going to end when I’ve eaten the sandwich?”
This is something I’ve heard from a number of believers: if life doesn’t go on forever, then life is just some cosmic joke with no purpose.
I harbour no illusions that my family relations will last forever, since no one’s ever provided evidence of a world beyond. Nevertheless, I see a great deal of point in having a family. I get to have good people in my life. I get to raise a couple of good men for the next generation of humankind. We have good talks. My beloved and I get to live together happily, right now. That’s worth something, even if it doesn’t last forever.
Life is cool. There’s so much to enjoy: get-togethers with people we love, good food, books, music. And sadness and frustration. A whole universe of wonder and discovery. And for this creep to sit there and say ‘What’s the point?’ is a kind of petulance bordering on ingratitude.
18 March 2009 at 4:08 pm
Makes no sense to me. I think the fact that it all ends at death IS the biological drive that creates family, not to mention all the nice things you listed.
19 March 2009 at 4:15 am
Meh. Death sucks. Given the option, I’d like to be immortal.
Of course, I’m a lot younger than you old folks, so maybe I’ll change my mind in a couple of decades =)
19 March 2009 at 4:44 am
I’m sure the video (if you had linked it) would have been full of tripe. However, it’s a valid question, and there isn’t a correct answer. Sometimes the answer is unappealing, but that doesn’t make it invalid.
As an atheist you can quite easily come to the conclusion that families are pointless. So the Mormon guy’s concerns are valid.
Religious beliefs are just one way of aligning people’s answers, and if they keep religious people procreating and indoctrinating their children, then they’re a successful meme.
19 March 2009 at 5:08 am
One of the downsides of a Mormon upbringing is that it teaches you to constantly look to the future, rather than living in the here and now. Prepare for baptism, prepare for a mission, prepare for temple marriage, prepare for celestial glory. Everything is about making a “sacrifice” now for some reward in the future that will allegedly make it all worthwhile. They give lip service to having joy in your life, but really everything is about making it to live with God again. In that context, if there is no God, what is the point? The point is, there probably is no God and so we should do everything we can to enjoy ourselves now. I think I love my wife more now than I did when faithful. Why? Because I probably only have this short life to enjoy her, so I want our relationship to be meaningful. Honestly, I feel more committed to her and excited about our life than I ever did before. I think the fact that we actually spend our Sundays together now is a big part of it (rather than wasting our time suffering through never ending and thoughtless church services and meetings).
19 March 2009 at 5:18 am
Dean Scarff: The videos are at the mormon.org link, and if you think that first one sounds like tripe, check out the next one down, where a guy says “There Has to Be More to Life Than This.” Geez, you get to live life as a really interesting animal, a human with language and everything, and you want MORE? It coagulates my yogurt, I tells ya!
As an atheist you can quite easily come to the conclusion that families are pointless. So the Mormon guy’s concerns are valid.
Well, look, as an atheist, you could come to that conclusion, but no atheist I know actually does. The only people I hear devaluing life and family are the believers who downgrade it unless it’s all on their terms.
Alarik: Meh. Death sucks. Given the option, I’d like to be immortal.
I think I would too, but actually I’m not so sure. I love life with all its (for example) music and art. But what happens when you’ve heard it all? How many times can you really listen to Vivaldi’s Winter? Wouldn’t there come a point where you’ve already discovered everything that’s going to do it for you? It would take a long time, but the past isn’t an infinite room of stuff.
My attitude toward death is currently one of frustrated curiosity. I want to find out what happens after I’m gone. What’s English like in 500 years? What computers will we have in 50?
19 March 2009 at 5:27 am
Hey, all you guys. Good to see everyone back.
Brandon: I hear what you’re saying about spending Sunday morning with one’s beloved. I think of all the good church-goers sitting in pews, and I feel lucky to be where I am.
And since I’m feeling emotional (because of Natasha Richardson, actually — how incredibly sad), I’ll add Housman’s saddest poem, ‘Bredon Hill‘
In summertime on Bredon
The bells they sound so clear;
Round both the shires the ring them
In steeples far and near,
A happy noise to hear.
Here of a Sunday morning
My love and I would lie,
And see the coloured counties,
And hear the larks so high
About us in the sky.
The bells would ring to call her
In valleys miles away:
“Come all to church, good people;
Good people, come and pray.”
But here my love would stay.
And I would turn and answer
Among the springing thyme,
“Oh, peal upon our wedding,
And we will hear the chime,
And come to church in time.”
But when the snows at Christmas
On Bredon top were strown,
My love rose up so early
And stole out unbeknown
And went to church alone.
They tolled the one bell only,
Groom there was none to see,
The mourners followed after,
And so to church went she,
And would not wait for me.
The bells they sound on Bredon
And still the steeples hum.
“Come all to church, good people,”–
Oh, noisy bells, be dumb;
I hear you, I will come.
19 March 2009 at 7:03 am
Well, look, as an atheist, you could come to that conclusion, but no atheist I know actually does.
You really need to start hanging out with more nihilists. Their existence tends to undermine a lot of your arguments on the blog. Need introductions?
19 March 2009 at 8:03 am
Sure, but are you sure they don’t want a family because it doesn’t last forever, or is it because it’s too much work or something like that? Or because they’re nihilists?
19 March 2009 at 10:21 am
I was talking about the more general “what’s the point in having a family”, rather than the “the finality of death makes families non-fun”. The latter is obviously a junk claim. Even “perpetuating some aspect of your identity” should be sufficient for most.
20 March 2009 at 2:13 am
I have to agree that it is pretty creepy when people talk about “well maybe in my next life . . . ” This is it folks – all we know for sure is here and now – so live the life you want now!!!!! It is too easy to “plan” away your life and not enjoy the moment!!! I am still trying to curb that particular bad habit that I learned from church!